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08/02: Realizations about Israel

Israel has been an arrogant little child crying wolf over the last few years. There was the attack on Lebanon some time back and now there has been an attack on Palestine. Both attacks were marked by an overt and disproportionate use of force and an over the top response vis-a-vis the killing of children and women by Israel, apart from the number of deaths involved on both sides.

I am not stating here that Israel is the only party to be blamed but the minimal response potential of both targets of Israel is not a winning argument in Israel's favor. The settlements in Palestinian lands annexed by Israel were a deliberate provocation and puts the residents of those settlements at risk. It's as if one knows that an area is prone to severe earthquakes and still makes sky scrapers on that land and then selling it off as being a safe place. This kind of provocation is designed to get a response and Israel is no stranger to crying wolf. Only a fool would be lured by this again and again.

Hamas' rockets definitely didn't kill as many Israelis compared to how many Palestinians were killed by Israel. Some would rightly call it a genocide; ironic considering that Jews themselves faced a genocide at the hands of Hitler. Is it a psychotic dysfunction that has Israel blaming the Palestinians and Arabs, by extension, for the Jewish genocide and consequently committing a counter genocide? Lest Israelis are forgetting, they were persecuted by Europeans. And Hitler certainly wasn't a Muslim!

It's no wonder that Israel is hated so much by the Muslim world. Take note of the use of the word "Israel" and not "Jews". Muslims don't really have that much of a beef with Jews. After all, according to Islamic scriptures, Jews, Christians and Muslims are folloowers of the the three religions of the Books. There are Jews in Iran; plenty of them but they aren't hated, unlike the Jews in Israel. The same is true for the most part, for Jewish communities in America and elsewhere. The oppression created by Israel is a major cause for the hate against it.

Unfortunately, America's unending support for Israeli oppression results in America being tarred with the same brush as Israelis. That is unfortunate and unfair but the reasoning for it is understandable. Supporting a wrong incriminates you with being a a part of the wrong itself. I don't expect a change to occur with regards to America's support for Israel considering how Barrack Obama had to appease AIPAC in the recent election campaign in America. AIPAC's political clout is undeniable and the "Change" Obama promised will certainly not be applicable in this instance unless the American public opts for looking after their own interests rather than those of Israel's which is earning them global dislike. That's a thing that has been long overdue.

Coming to Europe, the laws in certain countries about Holocaust denial are evidence of Europe's hypocrisy. Let the evidence about Holocaust stand up against the deniers instead of providing state sponsored legal support for an academic debate just to curtail the guilt Europe feels for the Jewish genocide.

On a positive note, changes and realizations seem to be coming forth from within the Jewish communities themselves about Israel. This is very encouraging.




Below is an article showing some positive changes:


Disowning Israel, best way to combat anti-Semitism: Jewish professor


London, Feb 7, IRNA – A British Jewish professor suggested to his co-religionists on Saturday that the best way to prevent the rise of so-called anti-Semitism is to stop sanctioning Israel’s imprisonment and massacre of Palestinian civilians.

“The simplest, most effective and most moral method to combat anti-Semitism is for British Jews, many of whom unhappy about shameful Israeli policies, to disassociate themselves publicly from those policies,” said David Mond from Warwick University.

“It will help put paid to the truly dangerous falsehood that what Israel is doing is somehow inherent to Judaism,” the professor of mathematics said.


Hi call comes ahead of the British Foreign Office hosting a two-day international conference of parliamentarians from 35 countries later this month to combat what is said to have been identified as the “escalating global threat of anti-Semitism.”

Publicity about the event, co-organised by the Inter-parliamentary Coalition for Combating Anti-Semitism, is being boosted by the attendance of several British cabinet ministers and members of the US Congress.

But Mond said that if there is any anti-Semitism in some of the recent criticism of Israel, “Jews publicly disassociating themselves from Israel's actions will not legitimise or encourage it.”

“There is no lingering, millenarian anti-Semitism, waiting to spring out if we lower our guard,” he said in a letter to the Guardian newspaper.

“What there is,” the professor said, “is bafflement, and of course anger, that British Jews appear to sanction the imprisonment, starvation and, now, massacre of defenceless civilians when they are carried out by our brethren.”

Speaking from his own experience, he said that when he identified himself on demonstrations and in meetings, “as a Jew who calls for justice for Palestinians, I have encountered nothing but warmth and appreciation from otherwise angry Muslims.”

“In Coventry, where a number of members of the organisation Jews for Justice for Palestinians have been regularly attending meetings and vigils in opposition to the onslaught on Gaza, there is a growing rapport and warmth between our group and the Muslim community,” Mond said.

“The pleasure and relief the largely Muslim demonstrators feel at the presence of Jews who can say "We understand; we sympathise" is palpable,” he said.


A link to a video is also given below. Brief portions of the transcript follow but I would recommend that the video be watched.

UK Jewish MP: Israel acting like Nazis in Gaza

"Israel was born out of Jewish Terrorism" Tzipi Livnis Father was a Terrorist" Astonishing claims in the House of Parliament. SIR Gerald Kaufman, the veteran Labour MP, yesterday compared the actions of Israeli troops in Gaza to the Nazis who forced his family to flee Poland.

During a Commons debate on the fighting in Gaza, he urged the government to impose an arms embargo on Israel.

Sir Gerald, who was brought up as an orthodox Jew and Zionist, said: "My grandmother was ill in bed when the Nazis came to her home town a German soldier shot her dead in her bed.

"My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza. The present Israeli government ruthlessly and cynically exploits the continuing guilt from gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the Holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians."

He said the claim that many of the Palestinian victims were militants "was the reply of the Nazi" and added: "I suppose the Jews fighting for their lives in the Warsaw ghetto could have been dismissed as militants."

He accused the Israeli government of seeking "conquest" and added: "

They are not simply war criminals, they are fools."


On a more humorous note, the shoe flinging spree has caught on and the latest victim was the Israeli ambassador to Sweden. It can be read about here. The video can be seen here. Sweden is an excellent example of how to protest the illegal and inhumane activities of Israel. They have boycotted Israeli events and it is being done peacefully. Best of all, Sweden doesn't has a predominantly Islamic population. While protests by Muslims are dismissed by the West under the "they hate us" mentality, the countrywide protest in a non-Muslim state highlights the point that something is rotten in the state of Israel.

I see these as positive signs of change. Only a realization of the truth will lead to fair treatment for all parties involved and a lasting peace. So long as the unfair treatment and one-sided rhetoric continues, there can be little hope for a lasting peace.

It's high time that the realization be made that criticism of Israel's actions is not anti-Semitism. The anti-Semitism label is not a license or a tool to use when someone disagrees with the Israeli POV. If that happens, anti-Semitism as a term loses its meaning just like what is happening with the Jewish holocaust. The entities gunning in support of holocaust denial laws certainly don't want that to happen, do they?
Asad  Politics 
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Comments made

How familiar are you with the history of modern Israel?

In the decades since it was formed after World War II, Israel has endured attacks by its Muslim neighbors. The "Palestinians" are Arab Muslims who were told that as soon as Israel was wiped out, they would take over. The only problem was, Israel defeated its enemies repeatedly.

Why haven't the Muslim nations surrounding Israel taken in their co-religionists?

The truth is that Islamic anti-Semitism is as old as Islam, since Allah and his apostle command it:

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" (Qur'an 9:29).

"Allah's Apostle said: 'I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle . . . '" (Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24).

"And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected" (Qur'an 2:65).

"Allah's Apostle said, 'The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say, "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him"'" (Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177).

". . . We were (sitting) in the mosque when the Messenger of Allah . . . came to us and said: (Let us) go to the Jews. We went out with him until we came to them. The Messenger of Allah . . . stood up and called out to them (saying): O ye assembly of Jews, accept Islam (and) you will be safe.

[. . .]

"he killed their men, and distributed their women, children and properties among the Muslims, except that some of them had joined the Messenger of Allah . . . who granted them security. They embraced Islam. The Messenger of Allah . . . turned out all the Jews of Medlina. Banu Qainuqa' (the tribe of 'Abdullah b. Salim) and the Jews of Banu Haritha and every other Jew who was in Medina.

[. . .]

"It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah . . . say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim" (Muslim Book 19, Number 4363-4366)."
12/02 13:33:11
@ Amillennialist:

How familiar are you with the history of Israel? The very creation of Israel in the Middle East was a fool's errand. I find it astounding that the Allied forces of WWII thought that giving the Jews of that time, a wedge of land smack dab in the middle of Middle East was wise. One is led to wonder why they didn't place Israel somewhere in Europe. The most obvious answer seems to be Europe's guilt over the holocaust which is evidenced even today in numerous laws against any discussion on the academic debate regarding the holocaust. As the situation existed post-WWII, the Palestinian Arabs were the native residents of that area but were displaced by the influx of Jews worldwide heading to their illegally created "homeland".

As to your contention that Israel has faced attacks, I would contend that the very residents whose homes were stolen from them [through the creation of Israel] have faced a far higher number of attacks and casualties at the hands of Israeli forces. A thing perceived as a threat by Israeli minds might be just that; a perception with no grounds in reality.

You ask why haven't Muslim states around Israel taken in their "co-religionists". I ask you; why haven't the Christians and Jews of Europe taken in the Jews from Israel? In fact, there are plenty of successful followers of Judaism in America. Why haven't they taken in Israeli Jews?

And there you go with the word 'anti-semitism'. Cry me a river, why don't you? I do not consider questioning or criticizing anything Jewish as being anti-semitism. Crying out 'anti-semitism' on every issue is just begging for pity but I haven't got any to spare this time around, particularly after the recent attack on Palestinians.

This "Islamic anti-semitism" is a myth you propagate to justify inhumane actions by the state of Israel. Unless there is a perpetual cycle of hate mongering, Israel won't get the dole-out from the US and the undeserved pity from the rest of the world.

You quote:

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" (Qur'an 9:29).

You didn't include the context of this verse of the Quran derived from the previous verses. It's like you say a single sentence out of an entire story and that becomes the basis of any claim you make. This is deliberately twisting the meaning.
12/02 18:59:43
...contd:

Read the link below for details about the verse you quoted:

http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/quran_929_commentary/

This verse says that if the People of the Book (Christians & Jews) deny God, the Day of Judgment and the injunctions of the Divine, and reject belief in the truth (literally, "the Religion of the Truth" -- the Truth being another name for God in Arabic) they must pay a tax; fight them until they pay it freely.

When you consider the verse itself, it mentions belief in God and the Day of Judgment. These two beliefs are found in both Christian and Jewish scriptures [particularly the older, less corrupted versions]. About Jizya; it is a tax. Can you tell me why you think non-Muslims in an Islamic shouldn't pay taxes when the Muslims themselves are paying Zakat (enforced by the state) as one tax amongst other taxes? Why should non-Muslims be exempted from a tax when the very Muslims living in an Islamic state are paying taxes? Don't you think it as being discriminatory? Do you protest in the same manner when Muslims have to pay taxes in non-Islamic states just like the other citizens? There is a lot of hue and cry over assimilating in the host country these days. Why isn't it applicable to non-Muslims in an Islamic state?

Nevertheless, this tax doesn't exist these days in most Islamic countries so it is a moot point. Don't base your thinking on reading something for 10 minutes after searching for it on the internet and then twisting it out of context. I have another verse of the Holy Quran for you to ponder about:

Those who believe, those who are <u>Jews</u>, <u>Christians</u>, and Sabaeans, all who believe in God and the Last Day and act rightly will have their reward with their Lord. They will feel no fear and will know no sorrow. (Qur'an, 2:62)

How do you justify your hatred in light of this verse?

Following on, you quote Sahih Bukhari:

"Allah's Apostle said: 'I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle . . . '" (Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24).

You are again taking things out of context. This is directed at the idol worshipers of Makkah; the Quraish tribe amongst others, a tribe to which Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) himself belonged before he was given the task to spread Islam.

In fact, at the conquest of Makkah, no one who stayed at home was killed and the idols inside the Kaaba were smashed. Nothing more needs to be said in light of this, about Islam as a religion of peace... A conquest with no bloodshed and pardon to all who had tortured the early followers of Islam.

You add another quote:

"And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected" (Qur'an 2:65).

It should be borne in mind that the expression “like an ape” is often used in classical Arabic to describe a person who is unable to restrain his gross appetites or passions. The verse is directed at Sabbath-breakers, not Jews in general so I don't know where you are coming from on this one trying to portray it as being something against all Jews.
12/02 19:01:00
...contd:

The sign of the Day of Judgment you mention in your next quote is not now so I don't see any reason for all this hatred.

The remaining quotes are not complete. Chosen phrases whose incomplete meaning satisfies your lame argument do not constitute as being a valid argument.

I fail to see the reasoning behind the hatred Israel has for Muslims. History should speak for itself regarding the uneven hand dealt to the Palestinians by Israel.

As for the arguments of Muslims hating Jews, I for one, don't. And I don't see the reason followers of either religion [note that I exclude Israel but not Jews themselves] should be against each other. In fact, read the quoted text below from the linked page:

Muslims And Jews: One Nation Under God?
http://www.altmuslim.com/a/a/a/muslims_and_jews_one_nation_under_god/

In fact, at the time of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), Jews were included as part of the Muslim community...they were part of the "ummah," so to speak. The Constitution of Medina read:

"(25) The Jews of the B. 'Auf are one community with the believers (the Jews have their religion and the Muslims have theirs), their freedmen and their persons except those who behave unjustly and sinfully, for they hurt but themselves and their families.

(26-35) The same applies to the Jews of the B. al-Najjar, B. al-Harith, B. Sai ida, B. Jusham, B. al-Aus, B. Tha'laba, and the Jafna, a clan of the Tha'laba and the B. al-Shutayba. Loyalty is a protection against treachery. The freedmen of Tha 'laba are as themselves. The close friends of the Jews are as themselves."

This is truly amazing. The Prophet (pbuh) made the Jews of Medina one "ummah," or community with the believers. This even though the Jews immediately, almost as soon as he arrived in the city, rejected him as Messenger of God (pbuh). The Prophet (pbuh) did not force them to become Muslim; he did not expel the Jews from Medina after they rejected him; he did not relegate them to a "second-class citizen" status. No. They were equal members of the city, one "community with the believers," with the freedom to practice their religion. At one time in history, Muslims and Jews were one nation under God.


You need to distinguish between Israel and Jews as being separate entities. Speaking against Israel is not equivalent to speaking against the Jews as a group.
12/02 19:01:54
Asad,

Thank your for your allowing my comment to stand and for your reply.

A few thoughts in response may be found at my 'blog.

Regards,

Amillennialist

A sample:

"If the creation of modern Israel in its ancient location was a "fool's errand" or "unwise," why is that? It is because of the hatred of its Muslim neighbors. More than the natural resentment that any people would have at a new nation moving in, what is the reason for that hatred? It is due to the anti-Semitism that infuses Islam (an attitude so pervasive that even Arab Christians living among Muslims often adopt it).

You want to claim that Israel's re-creation was "illegal," but that's untrue. Do you complain about the centuries of occupation by the Ottoman Turks or their Islamic predecessors? The Ottoman Empire was defeated, and the British decided to use the land as they saw fit (including giving Israel less than it had originally promised).

Additionally, your analogy to Western nations taking in Jews is deeply flawed . . . ."
16/02 07:45:30
@ Amillennialist:

Yes indeed, the creation of Israel was a fool's errand. The reason for this is simple; you don't leave a predator with the prey surrounding it and expect that nothing would happen. It was foolishness of the allied forces to create Israel in the Middle East. If they were feeling guilty, there is plenty of land in Europe where Israel could had been made. There is no such thing as antisemitism infusing Islam. That you still insist on this baseless argument after my previous reply implies that either you didn't went through my replies or else are blind to rational thought. If you are so insistent on badmouthing Islam and Muslims, merely turning the pages of history reveals that the Jews from the time of Prophet Muhammad lived peacefully with Muslims until the time they went back on the treaties they had with Muslims of the time.

It is also a fact that the Jewish scriptures don't even accept Christianity or Islam as being valid religions when both Islam and Christianity validate Moses as a Prophet. Which is the religion here which is deliberately creating differences?

You talk about the Turks and their predecessors. Tell me; is the land Israel occupies only significant to Jews? The sites are equivalently important to Christians and Muslims but Israel wants to systematically deny Muslims any right to the holy sites. Who really is propagating the hatred here? It is pretty obvious who wants a perpetual cycle of hate here.

My analogy is not flawed. Your arguments are based on false presumptions. Who exactly is supposed to pay penance for crimes against another entity? Is it the perpetrator of the crime or some totally unrelated entity. The genocide of Jews was committed by Europe and Hitler, not Muslims or Arabs in particular. Is it that Israel cannot face off against Europe and wants to subjugate Muslims of Middle East in an attempt to get same misdirected sense of revenge?
18/02 00:03:58
"you don't leave a predator with the prey surrounding it and expect that nothing would happen."

The predator is Islam, the prey Israel.

"There is no such thing as antisemitism infusing Islam. That you still insist on this baseless argument after my previous reply implies that either you didn't went through my replies or else are blind to rational thought."

Or, I can read, think for myself, and tell the truth.

What about:

"And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected" (Qur'an 2:65).

"Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from Allah? Those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil; these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path" (Qur'an 5:60)!

"Allah's Apostle said, 'The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say, "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him"'" (Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177).

That's funny. I quote Allah and Mohammed's murderous tirades against Jews (and other non-Muslims), but you say I don't read or reason.

"If you are so insistent on badmouthing Islam and Muslims"

I insist on telling the truth to save lives in this world and souls for the world to come. If telling the truth is "badmouthing Islam and Muslims," then what does that say about what you defend?

"history reveals that the Jews from the time of Prophet Muhammad lived peacefully with Muslims until the time they went back on the treaties they had with Muslims of the time."

No, turning the pages of Qur'an, ahadith, and Sira show that Mohammed coexisted with Jews until they rejected his false revelation and he had the martial force to make them pay.

Have you not read your own texts?

"It is also a fact that the Jewish scriptures don't even accept Christianity or Islam as being valid religions when both Islam and Christianity validate Moses as a Prophet. Which is the religion here which is deliberately creating differences?"

Does that line of "reasoning" actually work on anyone?

The Jewish Scriptures are the Christian Scriptures. Jesus is a Jew. The Apostles were all Jews. The first Christians were Jews. Traditional Christian worship still maintains elements of its ancient Hebrew/Jewish roots.

The religion causing problems is the one that commands its adherents to enslave or slaughter all who refuse to convert:

"the Messenger of Allah . . . would say: 'Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war. . . . When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. . . . Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. . . . If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them . . .'" (Muslim Book 19, Number 4294).

Please, tell the truth.

"You talk about the Turks and their predecessors. Tell me; is the land Israel occupies only significant to Jews?"

Non sequitur. The fact that the Turks possessed the area for centuries before the West crushed the caliphate was mentioned only to point out that the victor had the right to do with the land as it wished. Israel did not invade and occupy, Islam was humiliated and the land dealt with as the victors wished.
03/03 09:54:35
"The sites are equivalently important to Christians and Muslims"

False. The land only became significant to Muslims after modern Israel was formed. Before that, it was a arid wasteland.

But to a Muslim, once part of Dar al-Islam, always part of Dar al-Islam, right?

"but Israel wants to systematically deny Muslims any right to the holy sites."

More falsehood. Considering there is a mosque where the Temple used to stand, who is denying whom?

"Who really is propagating the hatred here? It is pretty obvious who wants a perpetual cycle of hate here."

Yes, that would be Mohammed and his allah:

"Allah's Apostle said: 'I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle . . . '" (Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24).

"It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise" (Qur'an 8:67).

"My analogy is not flawed. Your arguments are based on false presumptions."

I quote Allah, Mohammed, and historical fact, all of which make Islam and Muslims look hellish, so you don't like it.

It's a whole lot easier to tell the truth. The pain is temporary, the benefits eternal.

"Who exactly is supposed to pay penance for crimes against another entity? Is it the perpetrator of the crime or some totally unrelated entity. The genocide of Jews was committed by Europe and Hitler, not Muslims or Arabs in particular."

Again with the Hitler/European Guilt. As I mentioned before, Islam has been committing genocide against Jews, Africans, Europeans, and Asians for more than a millennium.

"Is it that Israel cannot face off against Europe and wants to subjugate Muslims of Middle East in an attempt to get same misdirected sense of revenge?"

That doesn't even make sense. Considering Europe's cowardice and Muslim bloodlust, it looks like Israel will be facing off against two continents soon.

I implore you to be honest. Rather than serve a god which offers you Paradise for killing for it, turn to the Son of God Who loved you and gave His life for your sins.

Regards,

Amillennialist
03/03 09:57:34
@ Amillennialist:

You are a broken record. And not very knowledgeable one at that.

That you need to explain who the prey and predator are in the context I mentioned it in above, just exposes your subconcious admission of lying. I left it implicitly defined deliberately and I got the exact reaction I expected. :D

It is abundantly clear that you have no idea what the Quran is, how it was revealed and why it was revealed in the way it was. Your arguments are essentially baseless and I have already countered your points in my previous post. Your perceived "antisemitism" in Islam is just that; a perception and a misleading and delusional one at that.

As I mentioned, read up the history. Jews and Christians in the times of Muhammad and even during the time of the Caliphs weren't ever coerced to become Muslims. In fact, under Islamic rule, Jews and Christians were given freedom to pray and protection of the state for their religious places, lives and property. They were free to live their lives as they wished. The same cannot be said about Israel today.

Muslims believe in Jesus, Moses and their respective books; the Bible and Torah. In fact, it is Islam which makes respecting the Prophets of Allah and their books mandatory on all Muslims. The same cannot be said of Judaism. Finding verses from the Bible and Torah especially, encouraging extremism and fundamentalism against others is not that difficult. However, my very religion prevents me from disrespecting the mentioned Prophets or their books. Apparently, the same cannot be said about you. This is the exact intolerance cultivated amongst certain people of Jewish faith by Jewish fundamentalists and extremists which breeds hatred. If you want to preach your hatred, go do it in Israel. I am sure the state would be eager to even sponsor you.

After all, your entire blog is nothing but a pro-Israel and pro-Zionism propaganda site. To expect any rational thinking from a fundamentalist like you is in vain. You are a black blot on Jews worldwide. I have the time, nor the inclination to entertain extremists like you. Please don't bother commenting here again.

Non sequitur. The fact that the Turks possessed the area for centuries before the West crushed the caliphate was mentioned only to point out that the victor had the right to do with the land as it wished. Israel did not invade and occupy, Islam was humiliated and the land dealt with as the victors wished.



Israel never was, nor will ever be a victor. Stop deluding yourself that Israel is a part of the "West". After all, it is smack dab in the middle of Middle East. Get your geography straight. :)

Keep in mind that all Israelis might be Jews (a generalization for your sake) but not all Jews are Israelis. It is a rogue state whose very existence is denied by some countries of this world. While Israel strives to gain some sense of recognition even after 50 years of independence, it needs to let others live if it wants itself to live.

False. The land only became significant to Muslims after modern Israel was formed. Before that, it was a arid wasteland.



Yet again you shed you pearls of non-existent wisdom. Anyone who has read up about the history of Islam knows the why and what of why Jerusalem is important to Muslims. For rational readers who might be interested in knowing about why Jerusalem is important for Muslims, read up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_significance_of_Jerusalem#In_Islam
06/03 22:42:52
Contd...


The city of Jerusalem is known in Arabic as Al-Quds or Baitul-Maqdis ("The Noble, Sacred Place"). Jerusalem is perhaps the only city in the world that is considered historically and spiritually significant to Jews, Christians, and Muslims alike. Perhaps you are wondering why Jerusalem is considered a holy city in Islam? Why is this place so important to Muslims?

Center of Monotheism
Jerusalem is known as the land of many prophets, peace be upon them all. Muslims revere all of the "Biblical" prophets, such as Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, and Jesus - peace be upon them all. They all taught the Oneness of God.

First Qiblah for Muslims
Jerusalem was the first Qiblah for Muslims - the place toward which Muslims turn in prayer. It was many years into the Islamic mission (16 months after the Hijrah), that Muhammad (peace be upon him) was instructed to change the Qibla from Jerusalem to Mecca (Qur'an 2:142-144). It is reported that the Prophet Muhammad said, "There are only three mosques to which you should embark on a journey: the sacred mosque (Mecca, Saudi Arabia), this mosque of mine (Madinah, Saudi Arabia), and the mosque of Al-Aqsa (Jerusalem)."

Site of Night Journey and Ascension
It is Jerusalem that Muhammad (peace be upon him) visited during his night journey and ascension (called Isra' and Mi'raj). In one evening, the angel Gabriel miraculously took the Prophet from the Sacred Mosque in Mecca to the Furthest Mosque (Al-Aqsa) in Jerusalem. He was then taken up to the heavens to be shown the signs of God. The Prophet met with previous prophets and led them in prayer. He was then taken back to Mecca. The whole experience (which Muslim commentators take literally and Muslims believe as a miracle) lasted a few hours of a night. The event of Isra' and Mi'raj is mentioned in the Qur’an, in the first verse of Chapter 17 entitled 'The Children of Israel.’

"Glory to Allah, Who did take His servant for a journey by night, from the Sacred Mosque to the Farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless - in order that We might show him some of Our signs. For He is the One who hears and knows all things." (Qur'an 17:1)

This night journey further reinforced the link between Mecca and Jerusalem as holy cities, and serves as an example of every Muslim's deep devotion and spiritual connection with Jerusalem.

It is the hope of every Muslim that the Holy Land will be restored to a land of peace.

Source: http://islam.about.com/od/jerusalem/a/quds.htm


Also: http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/aqsa.htm

I see that the issue of European guilt over the Holocaust irks you. But then again, you are a propagandist. Fact baffles you and you only solace is to copy and paste pre-compiled quotes supposedly against Jews from other websites. Talking about genocide, how is the genocide of Palestinians going on these days? Enjoying dipping your hands in Palestinian blood? No wonder the West is finally taking off its "Israel blindfold". Truth ultimately prevails and so it shall be in this case.

LOL @ your comment about Europe's cowardice. Europe and Israel facing off will be like Europe taking the candy from Israel; a child which can only cry and scream for candy despite having rotting teeth.

Don't bother commenting again. The only reason your comments have been allowed here is to give readers an insight into the hatred that suffuses people like you. You won't be entertained here any more. As I mentioned, I don't have time to play this hatred game with you when I am just not inclined to hate. Go blabber on your blog now about Europe taking your lollipop.
06/03 22:43:01
Is it not true that hamas sent over 8000 missiles into Israel? Is it not true that Hamas has vowed to kill every Israeli. Is it not true you teach your children to hate dispise and wish to grow up and kill jews? Why do you insist with your plea of being the victims of Israeli aggression? Opposite is blatently apparent. Have you no thoughts of progressing and making life more livable for the palestinians? How long will it be before the rochet barrages begin? I have been watching your progress toward self anhililation from the 2000 intifada. You have lost jobs in israel you have become the beggars of the world, You have ceased to realise that you are your worse enemy. Wake up and helpy ourself toward sanity.
09/04 20:48:59
The comment about Hamas not killing as many civilians is comical. First off, Hamas was trying to kill as many civilians as it could. Their trying was not very good, but as the saying goes"It's the thought that counts". Another reason Hamas did not kill so many Israeli civilian,is, because the Israel government built bomb shelters for the population in the line of fire. They put up a warning system to tell the people when the rockets were coming. Hamas put their population in the line of fire, but did not provide bomb shelters. The reason was to enrage the TV viewer by the de3ath of women and innocent civilians . My advice is to remain quiet build up your economy and Israeli trust in you, and you will be able to make a secure and happy life for your children and elders. The American Indian's views on land is that it is only temperary it is a loan from the creator and belongs to no one. To kill for land is to kill for your burial plot.
09/04 21:05:08
@ Robert Towsley:

You say" it's the thought that counts". I say "actions speak louder than words". Israeli actions resulted in the death of far more innocents than any attempt at retaliation by Hamas.

Making people live in a disputed territory is a deliberate provocation and attempt at putting their lives at risk. Let's see Hamas have the resources Israel commands and then we can see whether they too build bomb shelters or not. Till then, your speculation is useless at best.

By your own justification, we can conclude that the terrorist organization IDF is responsible for every Israeli life lost due to attacks by Hamas. If, according to you, land belongs to no one, why does IDF terrorizes defenseless victims over it?

I don't know about Hamas vowing to kill every Israeli but I do know that Israel has killed quite a few Palestinians and plans to keep doing it ad infinitum. The problem arises from the fact that Israel needs to learn to live with others instead of forcing others to live with them. But what can be expected when Israel refuses to accept the democratically elected government of Palestine? Clearly Israel has an interpretation of "Democracy" which is only according to its own interests.

It all makes me wonder how Israeli citizens can live with themselves knowing that the lives of innocent women and children are being laid to waste by IDF in the name of peace and/or retaliation. I am not saying Hamas is not responsible. It is and it needs to stop violence. However, I cannot in good conscience blame only Hamas for this mess. IDF holds equal responsibility. It is also true that oppressed people have no alternative other than lashing out violently in a manner which makes them noticeable to the otherwise indifferent world.

And no, nobody here teaches their kids to "hate dispise and wish to grow up and kill jews"! It is an absolute outrage that this lie is being spread to yet again gain unjustified sympathy. What happened? Was the Holocaust not milked enough already to portray Jews as being victims and needing sympathy, deserved or otherwise, on every issue pertaining to them?

I insist on humanity itself being a victim of Israeli aggression. Which sane person would support the killing of innocent people in the manner that IDF is doing? I want Palestinians to have a sovereign land which they can claim as their own, and for Muslims, Jews and Christians having equal unrestricted access to Jerusalem. That would mean that decades old Israeli perceptions need to be changed. A realization needs to be made that "everything Israel" isn't right or justified and that all human being should be treated in an equal and fair manner regardless of their religion, nationality, race or creed. Also, Israelis need to realize that the taboo about antisemitism has lost sit meaning solely due to the fact that every criticism of Israel has been labeled anti-Semitic.

BTW, you address me as if I am a Palestinian living in the region. That isn't true but that doesn't mean that the world shouldn't be concerned over the Middle East crisis. I am a part of this world and want a solution to this issue so peace can prevail but that can't happen till Israel keeps terrorizing Palestinians and Hamas keeps responding back.
10/04 21:41:11

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